Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V15_2/V15NO234.TXT

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Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 05:15:54
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #234
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Tue, 22 Sep 92       Volume 15 : Issue 234

Today's Topics:
                       Atlas E and F questions
                           Model ion engine
        Moving industry into space (was Re: Who went to Rio?)
               QUERY: Apollo/Landing Module operations
                   satellite construction question
            Space Platforms (political, not physical : -)
        Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) [Part 3]
  Using Electric Rockets for Science (was Re: Ion for Pluto Direct)

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Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 01:01:46 GMT
From: Carl Rigg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Atlas E and F questions
Newsgroups: sci.space

Can anybody shed some light on the following questions?

Every photograph I've seen of an Atlas E or F, appears to have a large
second stage.

Some references like Isakowitz, identify both Atlas E and F as
typical 1.5 stage Atlas configurations, that may be coupled with
a variety of second stages. This lists the Atlas Burner 2A configuration
as one of the options and shows all of the Atlas Burner flights as Atlas F
flights.

Some references like Gatland identify both Atlas E and F as 2.5 stage
configurations with a TE-M-364 (I seem to remember) as stage 2.

Most references decline to comment about Atlas E and F merely implying that
they are typical Atlas 1.5 stage configurations.

The Vandenberg Launch Summary only identifies Atlas Burner launches
as distinct from Burner 2 or Burner 2A configurations. Can anybody
identify which launches were which?

If Atlas E or F launches implied upper stages can anybody identify
which launches used which?

thanks

    Carl

=======================================================================
    Carl    ([e-mail])    (7U-550 415-390-1063)
=======================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 21 Sep 92 23:40:21 GMT
From: Charles Pooley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Model ion engine
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (DONALDO THE GREAT) writes:
>     I saw a posting about a voltage multiplier to drive
> a model ion engine in the SPACE Digest. I am very interested
> in this and was wondering if the person could send me the details?
> I tried sending email to the original poster but I cant get his
> address to work. Thanks alot!
>
>
>                     Don Platt
>                     [e-mail]

Two ideas for quickie HV supplies:  The supplies for copy machines
can be bought surplus.  They produce 10-15 kv dc at 1 ma or so.

The nother way is to build a driver for a tv flyback transformer/
rectifier (modern ones have the hv rectifier built in), good for
15 kv for monochrome monitors, over 25 kv for color tv.
--
Charles Pooley                  [e-mail]    GEnie  c.pooley
EE consultant, Los Angeles, CA

------------------------------

Date: 21 Sep 92 21:50:58 GMT
From: "Charles J. Divine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Moving industry into space (was Re: Who went to Rio?)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
>Think of the industrial activities doing the most damage to the
>environment.
>
>Now think about how much they *weigh*.
>
>Now think about Planet Earth's launch capacity, which is constantly
>being discussed here.
>
>This will give you some idea of the problem.
>
(deleted)
>
>There is industrial activity in space now.  There will doubtless be
>more.  We can hope that costs will come down and space industry will
>grow at a rapid rate.  But even in the rosiest scenarios, we are a
>long, long way from undertaking replacement of any large fraction of
>our most environmentally-nasty industries with spacegoing ones.

Possibly.  Possibly not.  The best scenarios I've seen plan to use
extraterrestrial materials and supply the earth with energy.  Energy
production is a dirty industry -- consider how dirty coal is --
digging it up, burning it, dealing with the waste.  If we can build
extraterrestrial power plants _without_ shipping them up there
wholesale, we can begin to make a dent in at least one major
polluting industry.  The biggest challenge here seems to be reliable,
cheap, routine access to space -- something people are actually
working on.

>
>If such replacement ever happens, it will be many, many decades from
>now.  This may be long enough for the environment to get seriously
>worse at current pollution/emission rates.  I think we will have to
>deal with these problems by cleaning up Earthbound industries, not by
>creating space-based ones.

Perhaps there will be an interaction between space technology and
earth problem solution.  Small pieces of space technology have already
had major impacts on earth bound problems.  Consider comsats...or
weather satellites...or thousands of other things.


--
Chuck Divine

------------------------------

Date: 21 Sep 92 20:31:04 GMT
From: Dennis Newkirk <[e-mail]>
Subject: QUERY: Apollo/Landing Module operations
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John Deane) writes:
>>     I _REALLY_ enjoyed "The Space Shuttle Operator's Manual"
>> something slightly
>> similar for Apollo and the LM. Does anyone know if such a thing
>> was ever published?
>
>1) Of the available literature, what comes closest, and
>Bill Higgins

I think the Apollo CSM News Reference and LM News Reference are pretty close.
The folks who publish 'World Spaceflight News' used to sell copies for
a reasonable price.  Their address is Box 98, Sewell, NJ 08080-0098.

Dennis Newkirk ([e-mail])
Motorola Inc, Land Mobile Products Sector
Schaumburg, IL

------------------------------

Date: 21 Sep 92 22:37:40 GMT
From: "G. Scott Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: satellite construction question
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (k.c.archie) writes:
>Over dinner last night, a friend wondered if satellites had air in them.
>If they do and are airtight, they must be built to withstand the
>pressure in space. If they are evacuated, they must withstand the
>pressure on earth.
>Since I assume they are built in a room at standard pressure,
>do they have pressure relief valves for when they get into orbit
>(or is that onto orbit?) or are they built to withstand the pressure?
>Thanks for any answers.

Satellites are built with holes in them.  When they are launched into space
all the air evacuates and the vehicle operates in a vacuum.  Fuel tanks
and other hardware that requires pressurization are constructed to handle
both the atmospheric pressure and the vacuum of space.

An interesting note.  The outgassing of the materials that the vehicle is
made out of can take a long time, and if not taken into account, can
mess up the payload that the spacecraft is using (this doesn't mean it
will, just can:-)).

Another interesting note.  One of the biggest menace to a new spacecraft is
the particulates introduced into the interior of the vehicle before it
is launched.  That is why millions of dollars are spent keeping the
things clean.

Hope this answers your question.
Scott
--
Scott Smith                     |Ozman's First Law: If someone says he will do
                                |                   something "without fail",
                                |                   they won't.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Sep 92 00:57:26 GMT
From: Nancy Lebovitz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Space Platforms (political, not physical : -)
Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian

Science betting sounds like an excellent idea to me--I can't see that
it would make anything worse, and it should make a few things better.
I appreciate the detail you've put into working it out.

                                ---Nancy Lebovitz

------------------------------

Date: 21 Sep 92 20:04:04 GMT
From: Thant Tessman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) [Part 3]
Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian

where it might be practical.

Reputation scores offer an new way to evaluate people's ability to
separate the wheat from the chaff in ideas and arguments, and these
scores should depend less on whether one has curried favor from the
right people.

Idea futures is well-grounded in our best theories of decision and
incentives.  Once legal and accepted, idea futures could grow
incrementally, and perhaps dramatically increase our rate of scientific
progress per funding spent.

CONCLUSION

Markets in contingent assets, more commonly known as "bets", offer a
needed alternative to existing academic institutions. Betting markets
cannot solve all current problems, or replace all current institutions.
But if this paper has been successful, the potential of such markets
should be clear, and most of the obvious problems with such markets
should have been addressed in enough detail that we can say the idea
still seems plausible on a closer examination.   If so, more serious
intellectual discussion is justified, and perhaps some small-scale
experiments.  We could do much worse than having intellectual
institutions as open, flexible, diverse, and egalitarian as the stock
market, with incentives as well-grounded and with estimates on important
issues as unbiased and predictive.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

These ideas germinated in the fertile ground of discussions with friends
interested in similar problems, most of whom are associated in one way
or another with the company Xanadu.  K. Eric Drexler, Mark Miller, and
Phil Salin have been particularly influential.  And my wife Peggy
Jackson has influenced me in more ways than I know.  Several hundred
people, more than I can list here, have provided useful comments and
criticisms on all aspects of the idea.

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------------------------------

Date: 21 Sep 92 20:06:14 GMT
From: Steinn Sigurdsson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Using Electric Rockets for Science (was Re: Ion for Pluto Direct)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:


   > The right thing is for NASA, or ESA, to get serious on proving
   > electric propulsion (I mean for interplanetary purposes) by flying a
   > serious mission that employs it... perhaps an asteroid rendezvous or
   > multiple flyby.  But such missions can *also* be flown with chemical

   What I've been trying to say is: why don't we call an engineering test an
   engineering test? Set up a mission whose purpose is to thoroughly shake down
   an ion engine. Then, invite scientific instruments with the caveat that they
   are simply along for the ride and will return data so long as they don't get
   in the way of the primary mission. When the engineers are satisfied with
   their baby, and when the scientists feel it is "off the shelf" THEN is can be
   used in missions that are primarily science oriented.

   The way we do things now is the worst of both worlds: let science be science
   and engineering be engineering.

In reality everybody would scream about the lack of scientific
justification for such a mission, and that they should do X, Y and Z
while they're out there or we won't support the funding proposal,
and then complain that the mission profile is risking the incredibly
valuable scientific goals X,Y,Z and why not do it using old
and tried technology, and then complain that it was either over budget and
overweight and Z(no X) should be cut, or the mission fails and
the critical science objective "W" was lost and clearly NASA are
just a bunch of Incompetent Idiot Bureacrats (TM).

|  Steinn Sigurdsson    |I saw two shooting stars last night        |
|  Lick Observatory    |I wished on them but they were only satellites    |
| [e-mail] |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?        |
| "standard disclaimer"    |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983    |

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End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 234
------------------------------